Biography | The Story of Cristian Mirabella

My guest today is famed archtop guitar maker Cristian Mirabella. Cristian's story begins in New York, on Long Island, in a family shaped by music, resilience and a deep sense of purpose. 

At just 10 years old, Cristian started working at Ronnie's guitar shop, where he swept floors, polished instruments, learned repairs and found himself surrounded by working musicians, vintage archtops, Gibson, D'Angelico, D'Aquisto and the living culture of the New York guitar world.

In this conversation, we talk about family, loss, craft, restoration, responsibility and how Mirabella guitars grew from a young man trying to find his place into a respected voice within the New York archtop tradition. I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Cristian Mirabella, and I hope that you do as much as I did.

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🔗 Jamie Gale

Thank you for listening and supporting the ongoing conversation between music, makers, history and the future.

Transcript

[01:00:00:03 - 01:00:36:15]
 with this guitar strung up in that first chord, I don't hear the guitar and I never do. In that first chord, I hear my mom saying to me, "You seem to really understand this guitar stuff. You might be able to really do something wonderful with this." I hear my dad saying, "Do something great and make them remember our name." I hear Jimmy D'Aquisto going, "Hey Chris, you know if you say you change the bridge like this, it will change the voice of this." All these wonderful, inspirational things and all these people that got me to that moment.

[01:00:38:13 - 01:01:26:05]
 Welcome to Life With Strings Attached. I'm your host, Jamie Gale. My guest today is famed Art-Top Guitar Maker, Cristian Mirabella. Cristian's story begins in New York, on Long Island, in a family shaped by music, resilience and a deep sense of purpose. His father placed a classical guitar in his hands when he was just five years old and after losing him at age nine, hristian found his way back to the guitar through Jimi Hendrix, grief and a way to express what words could not. At just 10 years old, Cristian started working at Ronnie's guitar shop where he swept floors, polished instruments, learned repairs and found himself surrounded by working musicians, vintage archtops, gibsons, d'angelicos, D'Aquistos and the living culture of the New York guitar world.

[01:01:27:08 - 01:01:50:21]
 In this conversation, we talk about family, loss, craft, restoration, responsibility and how Mirabella guitars grew from a young man trying to find his place into a respected voice within the New York archtop tradition. I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Cristian Mirabella and I hope that you do as much as I did. Christian, thanks for being on Lifelstrings Attached.

[01:01:51:23 - 01:01:56:27]
 Thank you very much for having me Jamie, I appreciate it. Yeah, it's great. How are things there in New York?

[01:01:58:21 - 01:07:46:08]
 Good, it's been hot and humid but today is a little nicer, definitely appreciating the better weather after a really cold and heavy snow winter. So I'm thankful all the flowers are out, the weather's getting cool, beach weather is upon us. Oh great, great. Which island are you on? Where are you in New York? So we're on Long Island, we're on the north shore of the island in Smithtown, really a beautiful area, very picturesque, a lot of open spaces, a couple horse ranches, even some vineyards and stuff like that. So really kind of like a slightly mellower area of the island. As you move more towards the city, it gets more city-like so it's a little more congested, the houses are closer together. Still wonderful atmospheres but when you like a little peace and quiet it's nicer to have a little more of that space so the north shore becomes quite nice. Okay, good. I'm not sure I've been up there. Of course all of my work on Long Island has either been around a guitar shop or a drum shop or guitar maker of some sort and so I've usually been in the city of arts. Yeah, well again for us, you know, out this way you had, you know, you have John who's actually in a little further west but in Iceland you used to have Jimmy in Greenport which is out this way and again you also have the Jazz Luft which is out in Stony Brook and now where I am currently, the new home for the show from Mirabella Guitars is the St. James Cultural Art Center which we're hoping with everyone here is going to do a lot with the musicians and stuff they're already doing a lot of theater stuff, a lot of art exhibits and stuff like that so we're hoping that they'll also do a lot with the players. Yeah, you're in one of the major hearts of the the archtop guitar, you know, I think that's sustained you, you're part of that lineage and, you know, I think if anywhere that's going to be sustained it's going to be sustained where you are, you know, because it's... Yeah, I definitely agree, I mean clearly it, you know, it starts with Lloyd Lauren Gibson, you know, and that is the foundation of the archtop but humbly and respectfully I'll always say was De Angelico is really for me the foundation of the archtop. It, while there's different methods, different ideas, for me that De Angelico method of building gives you the basis of an amazing instrument. So very thankful to be part of that New York lineage of that and build in that manner. So yeah, I definitely think New York, De Angelico, Jimmy, you know, it all plays a tremendous role and again having been able to grow up in a time when Jimmy was right there and all the guys were playing the De Angelicos, you know, the De Angelicos at the time when I was a kid working in a shop were working musician tools. So it was, you know, you saw them regularly, so it definitely was an inspiration as well as just an overwhelming amount of knowledge at your fingertips constantly. Yep. You know, I think for our guests we should sort of go back in time and sort of give this conversation a foundation if that's all right with you. Sure. How about we go back and just sort of, we'll do a sort of a brief overview of how you got to this point, you know, with, you know, right from the beginning. All right, so where you were born, what year, but also just the moments along your life that if we took those away you might not be, you know, who you are and doing what you're doing today. You know, I clearly had a major and dramatic circumstance that put me here. Yeah. I was born in 1971. I was actually born out here on Long Island. My father was from Brooklyn. My mom was from Manhattan, her family. They had come out to the island. My father was an Italian immigrant. My mom actually as well, her grandfather was an Italian immigrant. So again, we, you know, I was the first American citizen of my family, my sister and I. Okay. So do you know one part of Italy they came from? My father came from Sicily. My mom actually had come from northern Italy. Again, my father said only, my father has this amazing story in that he came when he was a small child. My grandmother was actually with child when they came and then passed away like a week after arriving, both her and the baby. And it left my father, my aunt, which was his very small sister, and my grandfather here in America in this whole new situation. But immediately my parents and my father and my mother had this amazing mindset of just do it, you know, just, you know, whatever the circumstance may be, see the positive and focus on that and get through it. So immediately,

[01:07:48:14 - 01:09:23:09]
 that's kind of what they did. One of the very first stories I remember, you know, of my father was my grandfather saying, my father had wanted to be a musician. In fact, my father went to Julia. I found out later that my father had gone to Julia, but my father was a World War II veteran. My father went to Julia and my father was part of the space program. And the reason why he was part of the space program, as I would always tell the story, was my grandfather said to him, forget this foolishness of wanting to be an artist and a musician. You're in America. This is a wonderful opportunity to do something amazing. And to my, I would then say, to my father's credit, he becomes part of the space program. But when I was five years old, my father literally comes to me with a classical guitar and says to me, I always wanted to be a musician. You're going to be a musician. And gives him that that's, that's my introduction to guitar is this classical guitar five years old. And he gets me lessons with, again, everything with my father was very detailed. So he gets me lessons with this gentleman that clearly was a noted player and would hit my hands when I was in the wrong position. So, you know, and again, as you look at it as an older person, you don't, that probably was cool. You know, you get focused to a five year old kid. It's like, matchbox cars are way cooler than this. This is not fun. And that's what I would say to my dad and my dad being a very patient, wonderful man, held on for a while and then finally said,

[01:09:24:16 - 01:11:57:15]
 okay, you know what, you don't have to do this. And I stopped the lessons. And at the beginning of the conversation saying to you, there was something that, you know, this major event in my life that really puts me in all of this is my father passes away when I'm nine years old. So when my dad passes away, when I'm nine years old, again, I was going to be a classical guitar player, then I didn't have to be a classical guitar player. But growing up, there was classical music and opera in my house and nothing more. I really didn't know of anything else existing outside of that. Of course, you'd go out, you'd hear different things, but had no reference to any of it. And my cousin Chucky comes to me, who my father adored, he was a young guy into airplanes, wanted to be a pilot. My dad would always give him money when he was dating girls and say, you know, and give him my dad was this wonderful guy in that he was always so kind, he was always pointing out the beauty and things. And we took a walk one time when I was five and he stops me by gently putting his hand in my chest and points out some flowers on the path and says, you know, you got to look at the beauty in the world. It's there, you just got to be willing to look for it. You know, the stress, the negative is there, you don't have to look for that. It will kind of find you. But if you take the time, and this is the stuff he's saying to a kid. So Chucky, he adored Chucky, he would always give, you know, he would tell Chucky, you know, open the door for the girl when, you know, he got to the car, you know, always be respectful, be kind, walk her to the door. He was always there. So he adored Chucky. So when he passed, Chucky comes to me and he says, it's like, Chris, I know this isn't your dad's music, he goes, but I think it's something you really enjoy. And he gives me a Led Zeppelin album, a Black Sabbath album, and a Jimi Hendrix album. And they were all amazing and wonderful. But when I look, when I listened to the Jimi Hendrix album, again, nine year old kid and now you're mad, kind of hated everything in the world. And everybody, of course, in those circumstances, you know, and rightfully and kindly so would say, how are you? How do you feel? And you don't want to say anything, you're just so angry. So here I hear Jimi Hendrix's guitar and I immediately say to myself, that sounds angry. And he's not saying he's angry. The guitar is doing it for him. I need that guitar.

[01:11:58:16 - 01:12:37:06]
 That's that's what if I have that, I can say how I feel, I can express what I want to. And I'll never have to say another word again, because that kind of was my nine year old mindset was, there's nothing we're talking about anymore. This is such a terrible thing. I'll just get this guitar and anything I want to say or convey, I'll do it like through that. If that's possible, because I hear it there. And immediately took like my paper out money, which you know, back in the day, we were allowed to have paper outs when we took the paper out with money, bought the guitar, bought myself,

[01:12:38:07 - 01:13:03:08]
 taught myself average book one and two. And then I needed a guitar teacher because I was like, okay, I know these notes, but I really don't know how to do things with them yet. And got this wonderful teacher, Richie Reibeth, an amazing guy, amazing player, and then bought a Stratocaster. And I buy an old vintage. Well, at the time, wasn't so vintage, but a 1979 Stratocaster, because it was cheap.

[01:13:04:29 - 01:16:12:01]
 And go to my next lesson and go, Richie, this thing plays terribly. It's a Fender Strat. It should be cool. It's not cool. And he's like, Oh, Chris, it's an old guitar. You got to get it set up and all this. And I go, Oh, I guess I'll have the guy here where I was taking my lessons, set up the guitar. And he goes, Oh, no, no, go around the corner. There's a gentleman, he even makes guitars, go to him. And I go to him and go to that shop. And immediately when I walk into the shop, there are two gentlemen playing jazz. One of the guys notably is playing an Epiphone Emperor, 1940s, blonde Epiphone Emperor. And I never saw a guitar like that. I was like, that is the coolest looking thing. Wow. And put the Stratocaster down on the counter and say, my guitar teacher Richie told me to have my guitar set up. And can I please work here? And he looks at me like I'm nuts. Because I'm again, I'm 10, go turning 11. Yeah, he like I'm, he says, Well, we're not really looking for anybody right now. But come on Saturday and pick up your guitar will be ready. We'll do the setup, but so on and so forth. Again, back in that 1995 for the setup, including the strings. So come on Saturday, you can be ready. And I go back home, tell my mom. As a guitar builder and a player, you have a sense for when something's working right. That's why so many of the world's best trust to Dario, unmatched tone, perfect intonation, and strings made to the tightest tolerances in the industry. That reputation is no accident. It's the result of 400 years of being obsessed with quality and innovation to Dario when you know, you know. And again, my mother my as as unique and amazing as my father was. My mother was a stay at home mom up until the point when my dad was was alive. Because at one point, she said to him, hon, it takes only so long to clean a house. I'm kind of the kids are in school. So my father says to her, he goes, well, get a job with your friend, do something you'd like and spend the money on yourself and the kids I got everything covered, we're good. And then regretfully, he gets sick. So this lady instead of throwing her hands up and saying, Oh, my God, what am I gonna do? She works three jobs during the day and goes to school at night to become a nurse. And not only does she does that, she works for a hospital Mercy hospital out here in New York on Long Island, and is a grief counselor for other ladies that are losing their husbands to cancer. So just, again, the foundation and as we as we talk, one thing I can clearly say over and over is amazing people surrounded by kindness, the kindness of the people and how wonderful each person was. But I go home, and I tell my mom, Listen, I saw this guitar shop, it was amazing. I'd love to work there. But the man thinks I'm nuts. And if you come with me,

[01:16:13:09 - 01:16:23:15]
 you know, maybe he'll believe you because you're an adult. I'm trying to ask and he thinks he must think that I'm going to work for a day and then quit. But if you go there and say, Oh, he'll do it,

[01:16:24:17 - 01:20:25:05]
 it might work. So my mother goes on Saturday with me. And very kindly she's, you know, um, you know, Robert, gentlemen, he was right. Oh, Ronnie, you know, Chris has been doing nothing but talk about the shop. You know, he'd love to work here. And Ronnie's kind of saying the same stuff, you know, I'm not really looking for anyone. And then she says the part that I don't didn't say. And she goes, Well, Ronnie, you know, Chris lost his father not too long ago. And he's now living in a house with three ladies, you know, his my mother, myself and his sister. Yeah. If he's here, he'd be around some gentlemen. And I know where he is. And when she said that, Ronnie kind of changed. And he goes, Well, you know, if he worked here, he'd have to do whatever I tell him to. And she says, Well, let him clean your bathroom. And if he doesn't do it, right fire him because he needs more life lessons anyway. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I did, I did amazingly quick, with it so smart. And he goes, Well, all right. He can start on Saturday. And that was how it all kind of started. And from that I would work the Saturdays, I would then if my Ronnie told me if my grades were good enough, and it was okay with my mother, I could work Thursday and Friday, because Thursday and Friday were late nights. So I'd work to Thursday and Fridays, and then Ronnie would actually drive me home. So I wouldn't have to walk home in the dark. And that Yeah, that's how it all started and sweeping the floor. I mean, again, you know, in today's world, people got there was no schools or anything like that, that I was aware of. Yeah, you know, so my introduction to guitar and being in a shop was okay, here's the broom, you're gonna sweep the floor. Oh, and on Saturdays, you can polish all the guitars. And that's what I did for almost like a year. And I got a little funny, I'll be honest, I got a little frustrated with it at I'm so thankful to be there. So I never like was mad, but I'd get a little frustrated. And I'd be like, I so much want to work on the guitars. But there's Ronnie telling me, okay, polish that 335, you know, make sure to get around the tune, a mattock to stop or listen on that de Angelico, you know, make sure the pick guards are nice and tight. So when I actually, a year, year and a half later, did start working on the guitar, Ronnie didn't have to explain the parts to me, what I wasn't realizing was he was making me learn all the aspects of the guitar, he didn't have to then go, okay, Chris adjusted trust rod, and I go, what's a trust rod, right? I knew what all the parts were. So, yeah, again, just wonderful circumstances. And that's what led me into that. And then, again, at that time, all the players, you know, and again, one of the one of the notable things is, there weren't a lot of supply companies, we actually went directly to the supply company that actually made the material. So we use the company called Delmore, which was in Connecticut, to make to get to plastics, and we would get to plastics. There was another friend who was working as the repair guy for mental in brothers and doing a little building of his own. But he was mainly focusing on mental ins at the time, which was John Montelillon. The other guy who had a lot of binding, because I should say a lot of sheets to make the binding was Jimmy D'Aquesto. And we would all share with each other. So Ronnie would call Jimmy or call John and say, and usually Jimmy, because Jimmy, again, had most of the materials because he was making those guitars, but we'd call Jimmy up and say, Jimmy, could I send the guys down, you know, the kids down to go grab a sheet of plastic, we need a sheet of plastic, fixing a D'Angelico, doing what a Ronnie's tellies or something like that. And Jimmy, of course, we'd have to all sure come down. And that was my introduction

[01:20:26:14 - 01:20:45:01]
 to all that. So yeah, just an amazing, right place, right time, right situation in that again, this is like 1983, 84. Yeah. So Jimmy is, you know, in the height of making his stuff.

[01:20:46:18 - 01:21:12:07]
 The vintage guitars aren't vintage guitars yet. No, you know, they're amongst the players they are. So you know, if you're a strat guy, you're buying a couple of vintage straps because you want them. And you think they're cool, and you're kind of collecting them, but they don't have the value. I mean, that kind of all hits in like, I remember being on an airplane, we were going, we might have been going to NAMM or something, or maybe it was the Dallas Guitar Show or something.

[01:21:13:10 - 01:23:01:18]
 And there was an actual magazine that said Stratomania. And it was all about the increasing prices of the Fender Stratocasters and the custom color Stratocasters. Whereas before, they weren't, you know, they weren't. I mean, I bought an original 1961 Candy Apple Red Strat. It did look like it was dragged behind a car for a year, but it was all original. And it was $3,200, which again, at the time was a lot of money. But it wasn't big collector money, you know. So yeah, great time as far as that. Yeah, the 1980s, I mean, you've got, I mean, the 50s, when some of these great R-Shop players are there and playing, that's only 30 years later. You know, if they were 20, 30 years old when they were playing the 50s, you know, they're only 50, 60 years old at this time. They've got all their chops and their body hasn't started breaking down yet. You would have, yeah, yeah, been around. Absolutely. No, absolutely. And again, and Ryan's shop, like Mandolin Brothers, like George's shop, you know, George Grunge's shop, was one of the main shops, you know. So all of the guys were coming. Ronnie himself was playing with the Lesserland and Orchestra. So Ronnie was gigging and playing high society gigs, as well as he, we were still doing a lot of star stuff. Ronnie was John Lennon's personal guitar tech from the time John left the Beatles until the time regretfully he was killed. So there was an amazing, again, and it's the 80s, so like stuff like the Power Station, we would go into the city and take care of the bands that were recording at the Power Station and stuff like that. So there was just so much going on. The music

[01:23:04:12 - 01:23:46:15]
 on the island, the opportunity for guys to play was overwhelming. Notable guys, guys that were really excellent players were starting on a Wednesday and playing all the way through Sunday. If you were a young kid like myself, like when we started in blues bands, you could still, you could play Friday, Saturday, Sunday. You could actually get gigs as a young band back then. But yeah, the guys who were like serious and, you know, professional players were playing Wednesday through Sunday, sometimes playing afternoon reception gigs and then playing evening gigs. They were actually even stacking gigs on top of each other. So it was an amazing time.

[01:23:47:16 - 01:23:59:20]
 And again, the guitars of that time, what the guys were using, you know, so they're coming in for setups, adjustments and stuff like that. Guys are bringing in beautiful cutaway blondie angelicos.

[01:24:00:21 - 01:26:45:18]
 And again, it's not, you know, again, they appreciated the instruments are made, you know, all the guys knew what they had, loved what they had, had a respect and honor towards the builders and stuff like that. But it was their working guitar. So they're putting it on the bench here, you got to get this ready for Thursday or Friday, whatnot. Younger guys like ourselves that were in blues bands and stuff, they were throwing down Stratocasters and letting you know, I just spent, you know, 1200, $1,500 on my 53 wrap around gold top, check this thing out. Could you please have it ready for a gig? I want to use it on Sunday or Saturday, something like that. You know, so that was your, you know, what you were learning on. Those were the guitars that you were seeing every day working on, as well as all the new guitars, the Charvels and the BC Riches and all that, you know, that innovation of the Floyd Roses and all those, the Kailers and all that type of stuff and all that thing. It just was an absolutely amazing situation of what was available to you. Mm-hmm. And so this is the era in which you're coming up. So, you know, there is a really fascinating sort of moment in history here that you're alluding to. I have interviewed George Crune multiple times. George and I spent a lot of time talking. And, you know, George talks about this period where people are finding the first sort of vintage guitars like 1970, because in the 1970s, the classic American makers that were, you know, the production companies, many of them were bought by bigger companies at this point in time. You know, Norlin owns Gibson, you know, CBS owns Fender, and they're pushing these things through. And George's story is that younger players or newer players in Nashville are coming in looking to buy a Martin from him because Martin's, their buddy's Martin was great, and they'd buy a 70s Martin, and it wasn't up. They didn't even set them up. The saddles weren't shaved like the nuts, like they just were, that was up to the store, not to the factory at that point in time. They were skimming every dollar off of them off the production. Now, very true. And so these major production companies basically birthed the luthier movement because there was this opportunity, because players were like, "I need a better guitar. I need this thing to play better. What if it could do this?" You know, and that's where things like what you're talking about, the Kailers and the Floyd Roses are like, "Hey, I want to do more, but the guitar won't stay in tune. Can you fix that problem?" And, you know, Kailers says, "I think I can fix that problem." Floyd Rose says, "I think I can fix that problem." So on and so forth. And so it's kind of on the backs of

[01:26:46:22 - 01:28:19:00]
 poor quality control coming out of major producers that luthiers step up and are not just asked to fix guitars, but are asked to start making guitars. So at what point in time do you go from working in the shop, working on guitars, to starting to make guitars, Chris? So to that point, yes. The new guitars were, so you had a distinctive of that point, two definitive areas being built up, which was the vintage market. Because guys weren't happy with new Stratocasters or Martins or anything else. So they were looking for the vintage guitar. And that was creating the vintage demand and also the respect for the vintage guitars and what models were rarer and stuff like that. Equally so, the custom guitars. And again, when I was a young kid, when I first started working, it was guys were either playing vintage guitars, L5s, TNGLs, or they were waiting for a new guitar from Jimmy. That kind of was it. That was all that was there. In fact, and thankful, and today, she's a wonderful and dear friend. The first luthier that I ever saw other than Jimmy was Linda Menzer. And the reason why I saw her was because there was an article about Jimmy, in which it made a comment about how she had come from Canada to study with Jimmy for the winter that she did. And I saw that picture and said, "Oh my, there's other people making guitars." There's another one?

[01:28:21:07 - 01:28:26:21]
 "Jame, no, again, and it's a young kid's mind." So you're like, "Oh my goodness,

[01:28:27:25 - 01:34:39:13]
 other than Ronnie and Jimmy and John, wow." But absolutely. So you see that. And our shop, again, we were making solid body guitars. Again, Howard Smith, we saw the creation of Paul Reed Smith. Literally from... We had them come directly to the shop when no one knew what Paul Reed Smith's were. So you had that going on. So Ronnie was trying to get a solid body. He was making his model solid bodies, electric and semi-hollow like chambered Telecasters. But I had a passion for the archtops because when I was around 12 or 13 years old, Ronnie tells me to go into the back of the shop one day. He's like, "Chris, go back in the shop because there's this guitar, the binding's going bad on it. We've got to fix the binding." He goes, "It's a De Angelico in New York. Take it out of the case. Get all the parts off. Get it ready so I can start taking the binding off." And I go to the case and there's this gorgeous De Angelico. And again, it looks tired. Its binding is crystallizing. The pickguard was falling off as well. But like the Epiphone Emperor, there was this overwhelming beauty to this thing. Stratocasters are cool and they look awesome to me. But the De Angelico just looked like... You meet someone that really inspires you. They have that aura about them. Even before they ever say a word, you're kind of like, "Wow, this is someone to take note of and listen." When you looked at the De Angelico, that's what it did. It was like, "Okay, this isn't your normal guitar. This is something special." And because of that vibe, I decide I'm going to strum the strings. And again, pickguard's falling off, binding's off. I strum the strings on this thing. And in its case, and it's in the case too, it sounds huge and beautiful to the point where... And when I tell the story again with no exaggeration, it is the honest truth. I look around the side of the case because I swear it's got to be plugged in. My brain just goes, "There's no way that thing can do that on its own." And I take it out of the case and buying chips a former off of it. And I'm like, "No, this is not plugged in. This is it." And that just made me go, "I want to understand how this works." Cedar Creek Custom Case Shop is your premier Freded Instrument Custom Case maker. And we invite you to create a musical instrument case unlike any other, one that's unique to you. Ever Cedar Creek Custom Case is hand built by highly skilled craftspeople using only select woods, Providence Forge hardware, and premium instrument-friendly materials. At Cedar Creek Custom Case Shop, we're dedicated to helping you design the case of your dreams. Find out more at cedarcreakcases.com. I want to understand how this works. This is the guitar. Because again, with my dad passing, I had a mindset as a young person. I was on my own. And what I loved about the archtop guitar, and I don't think I realized it then as a kid. I think I realized it later. The archtop has a parallel brace. It has an X bracing in it. There's not much more. So it's all about that car of how you make the plates define the voice of that instrument. So with all respect to the other builders of other instruments, for me, my mindset is there's not much there that you can hide by. Or change. Maybe I should say, not hide by. That's not correct. That you can change. You can't manipulate your voice. And again, you need to ask the flat top guys if that's true. You can manipulate, move a brace, and go, "Oh, I can change the voicing of this." But the archtop, if you haven't carved it, it's in a manner in which you're going to get your best results. You're just not going to get your best results. So you're really, in my mind, there's nothing helping you. It's you. It's an accurate representation of what you can offer the player. And I fell in love with that. I thought that was wonderful. And that De Angelico kind of gets me where I still love the blues and all that playing in bands. But all I care about now is archtop guitars. And again, in the era of when the guys are playing them, they were so wonderful people surrounded by wonderful people. They would let me look at the guitars. There was a gentleman, George Mel, who was a noted De Angelico guy who would sell the De Angelicos and stuff at the time. George would come into the shop and before he would even say, "Hey Ronnie," he would be yelling from the door, "Hey Chris, you got to come to the front of the showroom. I got another De Angelico you can check out." And I always say, "I'm this one-hit kid at the time with a Led Zeppelin T-shirt on." You start asking me all the different jazz plays at that time. I didn't know. I love the guitars. I knew the music because Ronnie was playing it all the time, but I didn't know the music like I knew Led Zeppelin and Hendrix and all that stuff. But I wanted to know everything about those archtop guitars. So we were building our instruments, the solid body guitars, and I was more and more experimenting with the archtops and what to do with them. We were doing a lot of restoration work. So while we weren't building archtops, we were restoring them to the point where we were putting non-cuts back into Strombergs that had cutaways cut into them, fixing the crack top of a De Angelico, rebinding them, doing all these different things. It wasn't regrettably until Ronnie's shop closed down and I found myself without my home. That again, it was another drive-in just like my father passing that kind of said, "Okay, here you are at this major situation. What are you going to do?" And it was like, "All right, you know what? Let me go this direction."

[01:34:42:00 - 01:35:38:20]
 So when was that? What year was that that you started to... So that was... Well, I leave Ronnie's shop in 1993-94. And again, I say this humbly, but thankfully, in that I see a comparison and a parallel. Jimmy D'Aquisto makes a comment about when De Angelico passed away that he wasn't sure he could do the guitar work on his own. You're with someone for that long, you just find that comfort. I had the same thing with Ronnie. So because of my comfort of the shop growing up and I spent, I think I'm 26 when I leave the shop, having been there since 10-11. So I too don't think I can do the guitar thing without the shop. I actually, like my mom, go back to school and become a nursing assistant and end up working at the hospital where my mom works as an OR tech.

[01:35:41:11 - 01:36:06:25]
 And there for about a year, doing that. And again, amazing people, the nurses, the doctors, just wonderful. But it's not me. I see my mom, my mom's there an hour early setting up a room. I mean, my mom showed dogs. So if it wasn't her show dogs, it was the hospital and she would have her stories and I'm just miserable. And

[01:36:08:04 - 01:36:42:04]
 my girlfriend who soon became my wife at the time had said to me, Jeanette, again, amazing young girl, when we're dating and turns out to be this amazing lady and says, you're not yourself. You're like one of the happiest people I know. And you're always positive and you're just there. I was like, ah, well, and I said to her, I said, I used to be special. I don't feel I'm not really special anymore. And she goes, well, maybe you should try

[01:36:43:20 - 01:37:33:23]
 doing the guitar thing and thought about it. And it was like, all right, well, maybe I'll do repairs. I used to make the pick guards for the guys, fix the D'Angelo goes, maybe I'll do that. And that will be enough. And then thankfully, quickly after starting that, so when you ran 90 to 97, start Mirabella guitars, which really is just restoration work, pick guards, making a lot of I'm taking care of all the guys that have DAs and the D'Aquistos, because I was doing that in Ronnie shop, all the guys knew me from that. And then as the vintage market starts getting more, a couple of guys say to me, they're like, Chris, you know, you know, all the stuff about the archtops.

[01:37:35:20 - 01:37:40:10]
 I don't feel comfortable taking the D'Aquisto on gigs anymore.

[01:37:42:28 - 01:38:15:28]
 What do you do? Would you consider making a guitar? Do you have a idea? And you know, what would you do? And that kind of made me go, you know what, is it the guys are asking for it? Yeah, let's let's give it a go. And did a guitar. And thankfully, the guys really dug it. And it went out. One of the guys was using it, a couple of the other guys sort and said, Hey, what's up with that? And it just it just went from there. And it thankfully, just kept on going.

[01:38:17:15 - 01:38:20:20]
 So you just start making them in what is otherwise a repair shop?

[01:38:21:27 - 01:41:13:20]
 Yeah, so I basically, you know, I had my so I had two shops, I always had two shops, like many of the other builders, I had a spot that was close to my home, where I could be by my family. And then I had a show them shop and where my paint shop was and stuff like that. So I was basically working between the two. And I again, I was doing more so repair and restoration work. Because I was noted for that. But after having made that first guitar, which I again, is like, oh, kind of quick, probably 1998, maybe 99 that it starts getting seen regularly. That immediately within a couple of months, I have two of the other guys asking me to bake them a guitar. So now one becomes two orders, those two go out, those two orders actually become like another four orders. And it just, you know, and again, I'm still doing the restoration work alongside the building. But as as the Mirabella guitars became more notable, and more used, they became the dominant thing. To this day, I still do restoration work because, again, all those guys are so you know, I, in some aspects, I still see myself as the young kid that says, you know, these guys gave me the attention that they didn't have to. So now when I'm in a circumstance of being able to help them with the restoration of their guitars, why wouldn't I take that opportunity and help them. So it's getting more difficult. It's actually been difficult for quite a few years to balance the two. But yeah, it's hard. It's hard to say no. And also, too, it's still always a learning experience from those guitars, you know, you pick up, it's like watching a cool movie that you love, you know, you go back, you watch the movie over again, you notice something in the corner stuff, you know, I tend to like like documentaries or, you know, classic car stuff and whatnot. And you know, first you look at the project, you know, then you take note what's on the bench in the back. You know, I've looked at pictures of Jimmy's shop countless times. And again, you always first go to that him carving the top or something. But after you've seen that a couple of times, you go, okay, I've done any information from that. Then you go, I noticed that file on the back of his bench. That's an interesting way that file is curved. Wonder what he's using that for, you know, let me look into that and wealth of information that you can get from all that. No, it's great. So you'll pardon me. I don't know my history well enough here. When did Jimmy pass? Do you remember what you're doing? Jimmy passes in 1995.

[01:41:15:05 - 01:41:28:09]
 So before you bake your first guitar? Yeah. So yeah, I'm actually kind of in that limbo. Actually, kind of added to the limbo, I was being honest. You know, I had left Ronnie shop, didn't know what I was doing. Jimmy passes.

[01:41:29:12 - 01:42:32:24]
 It's just, you know, I remember at one point saying to my wife Jeanette, who was my wife at the time, and my mom, that it felt almost as bad as when my dad passed away. I was like, you know, when you're a nine year old boy, and your dad passes, you lose your identity as to who you know, because your role model as to what you should follow is gone. You know, now again, thankful, amazing and wonderful people. My mom stepped in and took that role. You know, I will jokingly, but seriously say, I never got into like, Marvel Comics as superheroes. The reason why I never got into superheroes was because I was looking at one on a daily basis. The woman just never stopped. And she her attitude towards life, you know, first of all, there was an 18 year difference between my mom and my dad. So when my dad passed away, he was 55 years old.

[01:42:34:23 - 01:42:41:16]
 So here she is a relatively young lady with two children. And yeah, she's not

[01:42:43:24 - 01:43:21:05]
 destroyed. And that's not to say that anyone who is destroyed shouldn't be. I mean, clearly, those are the emotions you should have. And we found out later that she did have those emotions. She's just, again, a little superhero didn't let her kids. We didn't know our situation went from we were the kids of someone in the space program, and that financial situation to someone who was not in the space program, and someone who had a job working at an alarm company, while she was going to school to become a nurse at night. So I go from, you know, the situation of no problem

[01:43:23:03 - 01:43:30:14]
 to the situation of problem, but in both cases, never knowing it. So with my dad, we had plenty.

[01:43:31:15 - 01:45:27:02]
 But my father was the type of man that never pointed out that we had anything more than anyone. He was the type of man that said we are all equal, help each other be kind. So that was the mindset from my father. My mother's mindset was we have very little now. But even though we have very little, we're still the same and still have as much to offer as if we're willing to work hard. Your contribution to the world is going to be equal as long as you're willing. The money is not the contribution that you can give. The contribution is what you're willing to work for, educate yourself with, and then offer. Again, when my dad was passing, that one of the key things that motivates me to this day was he said to me, again, this little nine-year-old kid, do something wonderful and make them remember our name. And again, he comes from that era that that more meant a lot. So I took that truly to heart was, okay, I have to figure out something. And then as an older guy realized that being surrounded by all these wonderful people, I'm like, they deserve to be remembered. As much as do something wonderful and make them remember the name, make Mirabella mean something. Deeply so, how can you not tell the story of this wonderful and gentle John? I mean, Six Foot Two looked like a model, the guy, like he could kill you, but he was the gentlest person in the world. And this woman who was thrown into her situation and didn't just manage it, but overwhelmed it with amazement. They should be talked about

[01:45:28:14 - 01:47:27:13]
 always. So my logic was if I can make the guitars meaningful enough, and you look at De Angelica, the De Angelica story, you look at Jimmy's story, and then it's like, well, if I can make a story like that, then people will also have to talk about these wonderful people. My parents are gone. George Mel is gone. You know, a lot of Michael Katz is another very notable guitar collector and guy that helped so many of the builders and stuff. They should be relative forever. So to me, if I can make the Mirabella guitars important enough that they're in such a high demand and the guys and girls, the players want them, well, then they're going to talk about all that. And this story will get told over and over and over again. And you'll hear about all these inspirational people. They hopefully won't be just inspirational to me. This space is normally reserved for brands who make stories like this possible, like the Dario and the Cedar Creek Custom Case Shop. If your company belongs in this conversation, let's talk. We partner with brands who value craft, culture, and the quiet power of a well-placed idea. That's fantastic, Chris. There's so many things to comment on there. One, the story of human struggle is as old as stories are. You know, we talk about the struggle, but there's something refreshing about the way you're telling the story and familiar about the way you're telling the stories because in your stories, there's struggle with those heroes. And in our modern age, it seems that the worse you do in the struggle, the more important you are. Somehow it's like, it's not the overcoming, it's the struggle itself, which seems very backwards to a positive get shit done kind of guy that I...

[01:47:28:21 - 01:47:35:13]
 Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yes. You know, and I hear the stories about the way your mom reacted, and I grew up with my mom as well.

[01:47:37:05 - 01:47:41:01]
 And my dad didn't pass away, but he went away. And

[01:47:43:03 - 01:47:49:25]
 there's... You would hear about it in songs back then too, about this sort of

[01:47:51:05 - 01:47:58:17]
 things are tough, you don't have it all, but you've got a pride. Certainly there's Stevie Wonder and Living for the City writes a line

[01:48:00:00 - 01:48:05:15]
 that talks about his sister scrubs the floor for many, her jeans are worn, but never are they dirty.

[01:48:06:22 - 01:52:11:16]
 And it's that sort of sense of pride. I may have old jeans, I may have cheap jeans, they may be worn, but they're clean. And my mom was the kind of person who ironed her jeans and pressed a crease in the front of it. We didn't have money. During that sort of period in the 1980s, early 90s, when it got cool to have like ripped jeans, I had a pair of ripped jeans under my bed, because my mom couldn't afford those jeans and I wore them when she couldn't see. And she found them one day and she was so horrified that I had taken my one pair of good jeans and hurt them up because she would be so embarrassed to have a hole in her jean, that sense of pride. No, absolutely. No, very same thing. My mom was always, I tell kids today, my kids, they're like seven pairs of shoes or something. And I would say, we would get a pair of shoes at the beginning of the school year, at the middle of the school year, we got shoe polish to polish the shoes and make them look nice again. And again, like you're saying, with Yoma, we didn't have much, but what we had meant a lot. And especially like special things, like when I got the guitar, the guitar is everything. My room would be a disaster, but that guitar would be polished. It'd be in its case perfectly and stuff like that. Again, to the point of just doing it, I remember saying one day, again, my mom was amazing, always supportive, but direct, which I think was so important. I remember coming home one time and being a little frustrated. One of the guys was just playing so much better. And what's your mom going to say? She's going to say, "Oh, don't worry, hon, you're amazing too." No, my mother says to me, "Well, you know, Chris, that's because he wants it more than you. He's not better than you. His desire for justice is stronger than yours. If you want to be as good as him, well, then you got to figure out how to practice as much as he does or what he's practicing. And then you'll do it." Again, my mother, and maybe in today's world, people would horrify to look, she would tell you, don't try. I don't want to hear that you tried something. Just do it. And she would literally, and again, she'd be supportive by saying, she goes, "Now you might fail at it 20 times before you do it, but just do it. Don't say you're going to try it because if you're going to try it, then you can talk yourself out of doing it because you're going to try to do it." No, just say you have to do it. And if you fall on your face, get up and go again, but just get it done. And that was how you did everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a yodaism. There is no try, all they do. Yeah. And there's another guitar maker. I don't know if you know, do you know Jens Ritter, German guitar maker? No, I do not. Anyways, Ritter, and he's a very avant-garde guitar maker. And Jens used to keep a fortune cookie sort of taped up or laminated in his pocket that, I don't know, maybe he still does. I haven't talked to him in quite a few years at this point. But the fortune cookie said, "Fall down seven, stand up eight." No, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I think you fail when you stop trying. Again, that was the way I understood it. And again, with regard to building, can you make a mistake? Well, of course. But if you're putting your heart and soul into what you're doing, to me, it's not necessarily a mistake. It will end up being a learning lesson. You'll go, "Okay, that doesn't work the way I wanted to. I got to re-figure this." But now it's giving you the information to re-figure it. You're looking at it and you're going, "All right, I thought this was going to be awesome, and it's not. Okay, let me re-figure that." I had a conversation once with a noted...

[01:52:12:22 - 01:53:57:02]
 I always feel one of the greatest and most wonderful things is the input that I would get from the players. So they kind of direct... If you're willing to listen to them, they'll kind of direct you as into what their needs are. And that kind of dictates how much room you have to move within the guitar. Because with this one builder we were talking about, he's like, "Oh, well..." And then you explain to the player what the possibilities are for them. And I was like, "Well, yeah, but for me, I think it's more of a, what do you need? Let me see if I can achieve that need for you. Oh, and wait, I think I can bring a little bit more to it because you could take something amazingly wonderful like a Ferrari F40 and strap some rockets on the side of it. You've improved it. It will go faster." So by theory and literally, it's better. But is it? It's not practical. You'll die. You need to be able to stop. The whole thing. So you need that interaction of what will work, how will it work, how much of a benefit of it is. But you definitely do have to be willing to step off that ledge and say, "Well, let me see if this will work." And to the point of the try and fall down seven and get up to eight is, yeah, scratch your head. And Jimmy Diakuso said to me at one point, "Put whatever you have into the guitar." Every emotion goes into it. So whether you're happy, sad, angry, which again, at the time, as a kid,

[01:53:58:28 - 01:54:38:16]
 put all that into the guitar. And if you do that, it may not be the best guitar, but it's still going to be an honest guitar. It's still going to be good. Now, again, to be great, you have to fine tune. You have to get in sync with what the guys need. You have to hear the sound you hear in your head for what you're making. That's your name, your voice. And it's got to somewhat correlate to what the guys, the players need. But as long as you're working towards that and you're doing it honestly, even the mistakes are good. It's not going to give you a negative.

[01:54:40:08 - 01:54:55:09]
 I mean, guitars are extremely subjective, but there's a window. There's a window of what is useful to a guitar maker and outside... Not the guitar maker, the guitar player. And this idea that

[01:54:56:11 - 01:55:07:15]
 freeing up all limitations would make the ultimate guitar is not true. You know, guitars are defined by their limitations, not by a lack of limitations. Something without limitations, you wouldn't be able to characterize or describe.

[01:55:08:26 - 01:55:31:20]
 You can only describe it because of its limitations. And it's that struggle, it's that wrestling with them that makes the guitar so great. Now, it's great to have a guitar that takes you somewhere you didn't know you can go. You know, when you start to paint just outside the lines and realize that's not a line, you can keep going.

[01:55:34:04 - 01:55:49:05]
 And I think that's... So what you're saying there to me is like a key because it's one of the things where there is no perfection. There's, as you're saying, subjective to what the players are hearing, what their needs might be, what you hear subjectively want from the instrument. But

[01:55:51:18 - 01:56:50:16]
 like life, it's flawed, but that's its beauty. The beauty is it's not perfect. In a way, you don't want it to be perfect because then you can't inspire for something greater than what's in front of you because it would be perfect. So you want the guitar, you want it to be as perfect as it can be in that moment to inspire the player to do something greater than he thought he could do. So for the guitar maker, for me, I want to make my best instrument. Is it the best Mirabella ever? No, well, the next one might be, or maybe the third or fourth one after that. But in that moment, for that player, for Janie's guitar, you know, one of my making having listened to what you asked me to do and how can I make sure I have all of that, but then also give you something that the first time you play a couple of chords on it, you hear everything you hoped and then a bit more.

[01:56:52:25 - 01:58:37:06]
 I actually recently just put on the website, I tell a story. Every time I make a guitar, I string them up in the white. So I get everything kind of where I wanted to go, and I'll string the guitar up in the white. And I'll save that moment for, oh, very late, the kids sleep in my wife. Again, amazing people. My wife, Jeanette's a special lead teacher. The depth of what she does for her kids, her students, her staff, is overwhelming and inspirational. But everybody goes to sleep in the house. And I'll save it for that type of a moment and string the guitar up. Now, you know, you have all your expectations, you know, I've listened to what you said as far as, you know, bass response, balance, you know, I know kind of where I want as far as clarity across the board and stuff. So I have all these things that my checklist says to, okay, it's going to do this, it's going to do this, hopefully it's going to do this as much as I did. If not, I'm probably going to have to readjust the bridge, but I got the room there and all this is going through my mind. But with this guitar strung up in that first chord, I don't hear the guitar and I never do. In that first chord, I hear my mom saying to me, "You seem to really understand this guitar stuff. You might be able to really do something wonderful with this." I hear my dad saying, "Do something great and make them remember our name." I hear Jimmy D'Aquisto going, "Hey Chris, you know, if you change the bridge like this, it will change the voice of this and all these wonderful inspirational things and all these people that

[01:58:38:21 - 01:58:44:17]
 got me to that moment and that's what I hear." It's kind of like for me, you know,

[01:58:45:23 - 01:59:04:07]
 a welcome to the guitar. You're an interesting, you're this thing now that can speak to people. But the chord itself is more like a thank you in my mind to all the people that goes, okay, well this is how you were able to do that. And they're kind of like, you know, it's,

[01:59:05:22 - 01:59:13:19]
 I would humbly say it's not like an applause, but it's kind of like, yeah, okay, we see what you're doing, you know, type of thing. And it's just this very,

[01:59:15:16 - 02:03:37:20]
 it's an overwhelmingly wonderful moment. And it kind of puts, you know, and again, how, you know, so when you look for the next guitar, what are you going for, you know, do you want a better sound, you know, different innovations? Of course, I'm chasing that with each guitar, because I know if I hear that, then when I hand you the guitar, it's going to do all the things you asked me to have it do. But it does have that something extra special that I just can't define. And it's going to be something that's going to make you go, I don't know why I want to pick it up more. I just, I can't put it down when I'm playing it. And, you know, I was thinking about this, boy, the range of this thing allows me now to do this and this. And yeah, that, you know, that's what you're chasing, you know. Yeah, many times in my career, I've had someone come back and go, you know, I didn't know a guitar could be this good. It's that moment, you know, I've played a lot of great guitars in my life. I didn't know a guitar could do that much more somehow. That's a great moment. I mean, that's moments I live for, you know, sharing world-class guitars with people around the world. It's that giving that someone that moment of inspiration where they, like I said, they keep going back to it, you know, and maybe, and this sounds bad, but maybe some of the other guitars don't get as much attention anymore because they're so in love with. Yeah, and that happens often. So I have this phrase I've used for years and say, "You're welcome." And I'm sorry. Because when they have that moment, I know that actually somehow some of the other things aren't going to sparkle blood as much as they used to. Yeah. No, but no, very, very true. Well, you know, but also too, you can say for like some of the other guitars, they just need, they need to find the person that needs that voice, you know. But yeah, I mean, again, special guitars will, you know, make great musicians greater, you know. And I think that's, you know, what we're all looking for, you know, the fundamentals of just being the person you are is you want to hopefully, you know, from my perspective is be good, but figure out a way to be better, you know, and give that, you know, be able, you know. So for me, the Mirabella guitars, you know, it's everything I am and everything I can't say, you know. I'm talking about guitars like this. I can too. Although I'll be honest and say it is a little, you know, out of my element to talk so openly. But the guitars, they can do it all, you know. And again, and I'll listen to some of the players playing my guitars and you just, you stop dead in your tracks. Because one, as a player myself, they're playing stuff I can't, I couldn't even dream of. So that to me is amazing. But I'll just hear certain things and certain notes. And in those notes, you're just like, you know, wow, if everybody in the world could hear this the way I hear this, no one would argue, there would be no fighting, you know, no one would look at someone differently and go, Oh, you're different than me. I don't like you. It would be just beautiful. It would be, you know, the peacefulness of the music, the balance of everything, you know, and it's like, how can this instrument, this player, that note have that? And yet we can spin around in this world with all our technology and all of that. And those three simple things can find the balance and how everything should be. And we're struggling, you know, it's it. It blows your mind, blows my mind. Different ideas of beauty, different ideas of what a great guitar is. You know, most people that you think are causing problems that, you know, are picking fights and making wars. Usually they're thinking they're doing something good. Usually. I really like, True. Very true. Proper sociopaths and psychopaths are a very, very small percentage of the population. Most people are thinking they're fighting for the good life. They're fighting for something beautiful, you know, and then you're super romantic and very nostalgic.

[02:03:39:05 - 02:03:59:24]
 Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's, it's to, in my opinion, a great benefit at times, but also to, you know, you, you weigh your heart on your sleeve and everything for sure is, you know, very pro like we say, when Jimmy passed, when I left Ronnie shop,

[02:04:01:28 - 02:04:13:23]
 heartbroken, you know, to the point where how do you, how do you function? And then you say, you said, okay, well, you got to figure this out. But yeah, but in a way, but again, in a way,

[02:04:14:29 - 02:09:48:01]
 kind of like it like that, because again, how can you want, you know, again, from my perspective, how can you want to make something so meaningful to a player that it will give them this overwhelming ability beyond what they perceive themselves, unless you dump everything into it, you know, there's a million different guitars and guys like different things. And, you know, guys are going to say, you know, I like this guitar. I like that guitar, you know, and you're so thankful for the ones that, you know, love your guitars. But the guy who goes, Oh, I like this guitar a little better in this party that goes, Oh, why not the mirror? But you know, what is it? You know, so yeah, you know, I do definitely, definitely with all the guys that I've been around passionate about it, wonderful and nostalgic about all the stories and all the support. Um, just unbelievable. Absolutely. So, I mean, you seem to feel a responsibility for the legacy of the New York Archtop. And I say New York Archtop specifically, but maybe all Archtops, but you did specify the difference from the L5 to D'Angeloco. We're at this stage where I have a lot of conversations about legacy and succession because, well, maybe because I'm just old enough to be having those conversations. Yeah, we're all getting like that. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, the guitar industry that, that birthed things like Sam Ash and the guitar center and the superstores and the, the big distribution centers and the big companies, um, you know, that is coming to an end. I don't mean the guitars coming into an end, but that sort of rock and roll explosion, the people that were inspired because they saw the Beatles and the Ed Sullivan show or Jimi Hendrix or Bob Dylan or something of the sort like that. We're running out of what it takes to sustain life, uh, or at least to play guitar while you're living also. And so those things will close. The guitar won't go away. Um, there's always a sort of a cultural reenactment that happens and you go to, uh, to see any sort of symphony orchestra, you know, and they're playing music that's hundreds of years old at this point in time and actively. And there's one of those in every major city and all the small towns. And so the music carries on and the instruments that play that music carry on also. Um, but you know, the, the archtops specifically and something special has happened in New York. You think the current status is of that? What do you think the future of the New York archtop is? Um, I thankfully think it's really good in that I think, you know, I think all the archtops from, you know, different makers are all wonderful. The, the New York starting with De Angelico, I think is just unique because it's, it's built on that foundation of the De Angelico's and then Jimmy D'Aquisto, John Montillon, um, and then Humbly myself, um, in that they, they play true to the tradition, but you can see how they progressed from that, from the De Angelico. So they constructed in essence very similar, but Jimmy's mindset versus John's mindset versus my mindset changes from the artist and in that change allows that difference in what's being offered. Um, I think the players, you know, thankfully that, like you said, thankfully the music is still being listened to. Thankfully the players are still pushing the limits of how they can express themselves. I don't think that will ever stop. And as long as that doesn't stop, I think there'll always be a need for the guitars. Um, and I think there'll always be a need, especially for the New York guitars, because you listen to an old De Angelico, it's as relevant today. It's as good as any of the current guitars and, and offers quite a bit so that New York style is very rooted in its ability. Um, so I think for that, um, the New York style of building is very strong. I think the players, as they continue to push, will find that comfort in the New York style guitars, being able to have, um, the ability to achieve what they're hoping for. And like we were saying before, give them something that once they have it in their hands, they, they can expect more and it pushes them to do more. I also think in today's current world, like what we were saying, with so much going on, there has to be something that you find your comfort in that you strive for. So I think the musicians find that in their music and maybe even the guitars that they're hoping to work with, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, really work hard and work extra gigs and maybe even work a side job, but I'm going to get that guitar. I'm going to, you know, I, we have a bunch of guys humbly, thankfully, you know, I want the Mirabella, you know, and I'm going to sell my old guitar. I'll keep this guitar that I'm using right now. Um, you know, and I'll work some extra jobs and do a couple of things over here and, you know, that will get me the guitar and, you know,

[02:09:50:07 - 02:10:55:25]
 hard work should have a, should always have a reward. So I think because of that, and if there's that balance, and I think most of us work in that matter of, all right, I'll put the effort in effect. Again, I get to put my feet up on the beach and relax, or if I get to, you know, the guitar, you know, whatever your answer to the reward would be. Um, so I think for that, you know, the demand for the guitars will always be there. I think the need for the guitars will always be there. Um, again, like I said, a nine-year-old kid wanted to, you know, play like Jimi Hendrix so he could express himself because he didn't want to talk to anybody. I think there's still a lot of that going on. So music will always be that other language that people look to when they just don't want to use the words anymore because whether they're frustrated and don't want to say what they want to say, or maybe they say what they want to say and people take it the wrong way, you know, so they say, well, at least lost within my music, my music allows me to be heard correctly. So yeah.

[02:10:57:00 - 02:12:43:17]
 You know, but there is a certain amount of craft that is passed down and we can try and reconstruct it later on. I mean, they're trying to bring back the wooly mammoth, you know, we can take it and figure it out. But there is something to be said about the preservation of craft and the traditional master apprentice relationship. I mean, Jimi worked for John, right? And there's some knowledge passed down there, but we're at a stage in the game where the acquisition of knowledge is cheap and easy these days. You can learn a lot on YouTube. You can learn a lot by figuring things out this way, but there's still something there in passing things down. You know, I was at a remarkable church in the mountains north of Venice, not so long ago, where it's an unusual church that was built after a major disaster where a dam broke. The dam didn't break actually. The mountain crashed down into the water and the water came out over the dam about, I don't know, I think it was like a 200 meter tidal wave in the Italian Alps. Then it wiped down the village of Longorone. Almost 2000 people died that night. And the church that replaced it built by Micolucci. He built this concrete sort of swirling structure of a church to sort of talk about this and there's sort of a wave at the top. And I went there with a guitar maker, Enrico Di Donato, who was the student of the engineer who built it with Micolucci. And he looked at the structure and said, you know, I don't know that we have people who can do this now. I said, what do you mean? He said, you can see the wood forming on all of this concrete.

[02:12:45:05 - 02:12:48:15]
 So these would have been shipwrights, shipwrights who built ships with wood,

[02:12:50:04 - 02:13:02:17]
 shipwrights who knew how to build this kind of curve and structure and how to get it to happen. I don't know that we have those anymore. And that craft knowledge perhaps might be lost.

[02:13:04:09 - 02:13:44:05]
 There are schools that teach how to build archtop guitar. I teach many of them around the world every year and they teach you how to do this. And of course, they teach you how to carve tops in all sorts of different schools as well. But you did make a distinction about the New York tradition and will the circle go unbroken is a question to ask. And since you're such a romantic and nostalgic person, I'm curious because you seem to really care about this, Christian. You seem to hold the legacy. Is there something that we're doing to make sure there is a future legacy?

[02:13:46:04 - 02:15:06:19]
 Well, I think going around to schools, sharing the information, you know, again, I came from a generation where some of the guys I worked with didn't want to share information back then. They were like, oh, why are you saying? You know, I, you know, equate it to the, I forget who made the comment, you know, you can have Da Vinci's brushes, but you're not going to paint like Da Vinci. You know, even if you have his knowledge, you don't have his hands. Yeah. So I think it's important to share, you know, so going to the different schools, doing the lectures, I feel it's necessary, even though it puts me in an uncomfortable circumstance. Again, having gone to Catholic school and needed up in front of the class, a science project, you know, having to give that speech and being completely nervous about it. I don't like that setting, but I do like the setting of knowing that people are going to try something when, if they're looking at building and they're going to have the understanding and the ideas that might help them do something even better, you know? And I don't think by me sharing my information of how I do that is going to allow them to make a Mirabella. Because again, like I said to you with the, you know, that first chord when the guitar is strung up in the white, that guitar reflects a lifetime of all that

[02:15:08:00 - 02:17:29:29]
 got to that moment. You know, their, their guitar is going to be different. It's going to be influenced. What they're going to put into their guitar is going to be their life in a view, you know? So I think it's wonderful and necessary to share and never tell anyone, this is how you have to do it. You know, is the New York style the best way of building archtops? To me, yes. You know, I look at that D'Angelico and I still to this day go, that's amazing. You know, I again do, am I confident and happy that I can humbly say I can improve on that. And that's why there's the Mirabella absolutely, you know, and respectfully to D'Angelico and D'Acquisto. But they're, you know, they had each builder looks at their instrument or, and I'm sure they do should, you know, as that's wonderful, you know, and that's my contribution. So sharing that information, having the legacy, definitely like what we said, wanting everybody to still talk about these guys, you know, D'Angelico is as relevant today as when he was building his guitars. And why? Because he's the foundation that gave Jimmy D'Acquisto, John and myself the basis of an instrument that we could then build on and become noted for our instruments. But we had the comfort, you know, the bungee chord, you know, again, jump off the cliff. What's going to make you jump off the cliff so courageously? Well, you know, you have one ankle tied to the tradition of D'Angelico, you ain't going to hit the ground. Now how high you shoot out forward is pending on how much you want to risk, how much you want to innovate, how good is that innovation that you've done, you know, we'll see how far further out you get. But yeah, you ain't going to hit the ground because you're following something that you know is going to work. It's just a matter of how much can you make it your own now, and how much can you improve it, and what needs to be improved. And again, that you find from the players. They're going to tell you, you know, this and that. Okay, so can I put you on the spot? Sure.

[02:17:32:23 - 02:17:34:07]
 What defines a Mirabella guitar?

[02:17:37:27 - 02:17:44:05]
 I think what makes the Mirabella guitars unique is they have an old voice

[02:17:45:22 - 02:17:53:13]
 with a tremendous amount of modern ability. So when you listen to a Mirabella guitar,

[02:17:55:05 - 02:18:59:17]
 even as a brand new instrument, there's thankfully, I think, and humbly, a lot of the guys have said there's something very familiar to them about the voice of the guitar. And that's the most humbling thing to me because what they're saying to me is it sounds similar to the DA. It has that full body and warm tone, but it has the clarity and the articulation on the board that the modern guys play a lot more notes than me. So the guitar can keep up with them. I think what makes the Mirabella's unique is I like them to be a reflection of all the things I see as beauty in the world. So Mirabella guitars, yes, they're a musical tool, but they also try to be a piece of art. I want you not to be able to walk past the Mirabella guitar when it's on the stand. As much as I don't want you to put it down, I want you to want to stare at it for two hours. You know, again, to me, always being into classic cars and the guitar, I could sit there and stare at a De Angelico

[02:19:00:21 - 02:19:12:25]
 for five hours. I can stare at a beautiful vintage Ferrari or a Porsche or something like that and go, just look at the lines of that thing. It's awesome. And as much as you want to drive it and enjoy

[02:19:13:25 - 02:20:51:26]
 its ability, just seeing it sit there is cool. So I want that for that. And I think the Mirabella's humbly do that as well, in that a lot of people see them and go, wow, that's a beautiful guitar. And I think that's that initial invitation to go, okay, if it's that pretty, does it sound as good as it looks? And then hopefully and thankfully to have them go, wow, yes, it does. And I think that is what makes the Mirabella's what they are is their instruments that, and thankfully, having seen it through the years, their instruments that the players want and they're picking them as instruments, not for a portion of their musical journey. It's not one of the voices of what they are using. It's the main voice of what they're using. You know, I thankfully have players now that have been playing Mirabella guitars for over 20 years. And it's their main guitar. You know, I had a dear friend who had a dear question though. He was a wonderful player, he's a wonderful player. And he kept saying to me, Chris, you know, would love for you to make me a guitar. And he had guitars from other builders, and they were wonderful guitars as well. But he would always sell them. And he would always go back to the request though. And I said to him at one point, I was like, you know what, that's your guitar. You know, you appreciate and it's wonderful that you do you appreciate the other builders, you're supporting them. But that's not your guitar. That 1977

[02:20:53:01 - 02:22:28:07]
 Dioquisto is. And I said to him, I was like, Pete, you know what, I don't want to try and make you a guitar. What I want to try to do is figure out how to make every other player that I make a guitar for make their guitar your 77 Dioquisto. Because if I can make them feel about the Mirabella the way you do, then I've gone beyond building them a guitar. I built them a musical companion. And that's, that's really, you know, what I've always wanted to do. You know, I don't want to depart, you know, some plays need different voices. So I truly understand that. But I definitely am trying for the Mirabella guitars to be like one of their main, you know, each player has that significant guitar, you know, you will always see them with and it's kind of like, okay, they have, you know, this many guitars, but it's always that one. You know, and you just name the player. And there's, you know, there's that one guitar that's using more regular. And that's, I think, you know, what thankfully the Mirabella's are becoming. And what I hope for the rest of them is that they become, you know, that player's main voice and has the ability to get them through as much as they can. All right. So you start this company in 1997, which means next year is your 30th anniversary. Yeah. And you want to make a legacy for your family. Your dad says,

[02:22:30:07 - 02:25:03:03]
 do something that makes them remember. Are you there? Are you satisfied? Do you feel like, yeah, you did, if I'm being honest, not even close. Not even close yet. So every day I wake up and I'm, I'm thankful for the day and I hope for the next. And I say to myself, okay, get in the shop and do something cool. You know, I think if I looked at it and said, have I done anything wonderful? I think what I'm doing is getting myself on a positive path and the instruments I'm making are representing that path. But as far as having done it, that won't happen until I'm done. You know, did you get to the destination? You only know if you did it once you're there and you kind of look back and go, yeah, okay, here I am. So no, no, you know, I think there's always room for improvement. I think there's always more room for inspiration. Yeah, no, I think if you allow yourself to think at any moment that you've done anything, you'll stop doing. So it's kind of like, no, you know, be thankful for the opportunities. Be thankful for all the ones, you know, again, I've seen now some of the Mirabellas they'll come in that are, you know, 25 years old. And they're wonderful. They're just great guitars. You know, I don't look back at I don't look at them and go, oh, I'm so glad I'm building like this now. You know, which again, for me, is another positive. I look at the older guitars and go, that's a great guitar. It's a great guitar today. You know, is it different than the new Mirabellas? Absolutely. You know, they've kind of done, but you can clearly see they're the same guitar. And that to me is wonderful. But yeah, as far as having gotten there, you know, you know, at some point, I'm hoping it's, you know, many, many years from now, you know, after a very long life. But I'm hoping when I see my mom and dad again, you know, the thing they'll say to me is, okay, you did it, you know, you made them remember and we're proud. You know, and that's kind of it, you know, then I'll say, oh, okay, cool. I did it. You know, but until then, nah, just keep going.

[02:25:07:12 - 02:25:49:20]
 Well, Chris, as we look to wrap things up, I always throw it back to my guests. At the end, I think it helps me avoid them saying we didn't talk about what I thought we were going to talk about. Is there something that you'd hoped that we would talk about today that maybe we didn't cover or something you want to say about what you're doing today or any questions for me before we wrap this up? No, I think I would say that I truly appreciate what you're doing. Because again, just as we were talking, it's a way of giving insight to builders that are already building, people that might want to consider building and how they can figure out how to get

[02:25:50:26 - 02:25:57:01]
 aspects and ideas towards that. I think if anything, I'd want to convey is, you know,

[02:25:58:10 - 02:26:51:22]
 and I said it recently to a younger group of students is, you know, don't be afraid to dream and don't be afraid that your dream might need to be altered a little bit as you're going. You know, when I first, you know, grabbed that guitar, I wanted to be a guitar player, you know, and everything I thought was one day I want to be as cool as Hendrix. And I realized that at a point that, no, I'm good, but I'm not that, you know, but as far as the building and as far as understanding how to make the instrument, well, that maybe I can be great at. So, you know, don't be afraid to, you know, dream the dream you want, but don't be afraid to go, okay, it's got to get modified a little and don't and don't see that as a disappointment. It's just, you know, it's got to be personalized for who you are and what you're willing to do.

[02:26:53:22 - 02:27:20:28]
 But, you know, I think it's just, you know, my main thing is I'm hoping that people see in the Mirabella guitars, the things I say in that I hope they inspire people. I hope they see that they come from the lineage of the New York guitars, but also all those players that were so kind to share the D and D I hope without knowing and being able to go, oh, it's because of that. They just,

[02:27:22:08 - 02:27:48:16]
 as they thankfully have said, there's just something special about it. And if they're doing that, then that's awesome. Great. Well, Chris, thank you for keeping the spirit of the New York Arch top alive. Thank you for the care that you put into what you're doing and to your craft. I think your community, your family, thank you for making inspiring guitars.

[02:27:50:17 - 02:28:55:20]
 Thank you for that comment. Again, that's really it, you know, the hope and want that, you know, I can inspire with my art, my instruments, the players and, you know, to do amazing things with what they can do. And also, too, as was saying, the players that aren't even players yet, if they look at that guitar, like I looked at that Epiphone Emperor and go, wow, what is that? And that opens up a world and window to, again, like we were saying about ourselves, you know, kids that had wonderful, wonderful moms or dads or, you know, but didn't have that whole thing. Or didn't have, you know, whatever circumstance they may be in that is not the circumstance they like. If they can find the beauty in the guitars or in whatever thing that inspires them, they find their inspiration and it puts them towards a positive instead of staying in the negative they might find themselves in. I think that'd be great. Wonderful. Thanks for being on Life With Strings Attached, Chris. I appreciate you, David. Thank you so much for having me.

[02:28:57:07 - 02:29:10:13]
 You've been listening to Life With Strings Attached. If today's conversation meant something to you, consider passing it on. These stories find their place through the people who share them. A new episode comes out every Friday, right here, wherever you're listening.

[02:29:11:24 - 02:29:15:10]
 I'm Jamie Gale, and thanks for listening to Life With Strings Attached.